abraxaslogs | Reality doesn’t always give us the life that we desire

"I think Thorne would call all of the original Summoned who fled to the Free Cities and Solvunn problems. If they could have sent them all back, they would have."

That is why Istredd's suspected from the beginning they don't have the ability to do that. Which does seem strange, spells usually do have a way to reverse, but he has a low opinion on Thorne's mages, in truth. Many of their decisions seem foolish to him and they seem to be playing with forces they don't entirely understand. He can relate, honestly, both personally and through the Brotherhood, but it doesn't excuse their reckless magic.

"It would have helped them restart this experiment of theirs without anyone else talking poorly about their actions in the start." That seems the most logical thing to him, if he were running this show. Istredd knows that Thorne is dangerous and an active problem, but he has to live with them, so living within their control is all he can do.

[Ah. Less about Summoned being unreasonable, more about them being inconvenient to a faction's goals. He'd heard only a little about the Summoned that had been the first brought in by Thorne, but everything about that situation sounds like it had been terrible, and that--as well as the other factions' attitudes toward the Summoned--had been something in the back of Jayden's mind that he'd planned to learn more about after settling in.

Those plans had been interrupted by the cultist death pit, however, and he hasn't exactly had the strength or motivation to try and learn more about this world's politics just yet. But having stumbled onto the topic now, the faint senses of curiosity and trepidation that he'd had before are returning.]

Which faction are you in?

[He should ask that first, he supposes; he's never seen Istredd in the Free Cities, but that really doesn't mean much, as he hadn't actually met all that many Summoned outside of the pit and hasn't been particularly social since they were rescued.]

Edited 2023-04-18 23:19 (UTC)

"The source of most trouble in this sphere itself, Thorne. And they do deserve the distrust." Istredd is not a fan of his faction, not by a long shot, nor is anyone really. They are all just trying to make it through this situation. He doesn't know if anyone truly cares for their faction, although Wanda seems to like her time in Solvunn, as strange as that seems to him.

"Not long before this happened, we had a meeting right here in this library. The Thorne Summoned, to discuss our complicated and fraught situation." Istredd set up the secret meeting which is why it took place here, and it was a strange situation for him. He usually avoids social situations, but in this case, the formality was needed.

"We have none of the freedoms some of you have. We can't own businesses or make money, we can't move out of the castle. We aren't allowed weapons or anything to defend ourselves with. They're suspicious and controlling at all times." Istredd doesn't think most Summoned in other factions realize the extent to which the Thorne Summoned are like trapped rats. They're in the Horizon so he can talk about it.

"We have to go to the Horizon to talk because they're probably always listening."

Jayden has definitely not heard any of this. Of course, what little he'd been told about Thorne's experiments with the original Summoned had already given him something of a poor impression of Thorne, but it had been very vague; this is much more direct, much more concrete, and a bit shockingly so.

He knows better than to assume that nothing can be done just because it hasn't been done yet, but is also well aware that he doesn't have enough context or information to jump immediately to possible solutions. But this feels like something that should be much more of a priority than it seems to have been, and he folds his arms, tapping his fingers against his side in agitation.

"Does everyone know about this? That this is what you're all dealin' with there?"

Istredd knows this is rather bleak information and he says it very flatly and factually. This is simply how it is, no reason to dress it up. Thorne is an oppressive regime and they are more or less trapped there. He has no love for the faction.

"Some people do. The original group who fled to the other places do, and they've told others. We also don't pretend otherwise if people ask. We try to inform new people as they arrive there, it's important they understand. Being critical of Thorne or the monarchy where they can hear you could lead to an arrest or detainment."

Istredd has said before that none of them can really understand the difference between being in Thorne and elsewhere. There is a constant paranoia and anxiety that dogs all of them. Istredd has learned how to succeed within the castle but it's a survival tactic on top of trying to protect the other Summoned. The ravens make some cawing noises that sound strangely like agreement. He glances over at them, amused, before back at Jayden.

"There isn't anything you can all do as of now. The queen already destroyed one of your cities over an assumed attack, trying to mess with their Summoned would be an act of war."

Ugh. Politics. He wishes he could say that it's the factions' problems if they want to fight with each other, and that's true of the leaders, but it isn't really true of the people. They don't deserve what would happen if there was a war, and he does care about that.

But he also cares about the Summoned in Thorne, and this doesn't seem like something that should just be acceptable. Of course he's under no illusion that the Free Cities is without fault, likely instead just taking the tactic they think might benefit them when it comes time for them to want whatever they ultimately brought the Summoned here for, but the conditions Istredd's describing at Throne feels like a pressing issue.

"Aside from the political side of things, is there anythin' stopping you from leaving? People travel around through portals, right? Any reason you can't get through one of the portals, like from Nocwich?" There's visits there every so often, right? Is there some sort of magical warding that stops travel between factions? He presumes there must be, or at least something similar, but this is one more piece of information he doesn't know for sure.

"They have magic that blocks portals. I usually should be able to teleport across countries, to different kingdoms. I can't go outside of their containment." Istredd has never been so grounded since he first learned how to portal. He has tried too, he tested the boundaries out of curiosity, and he doesn't know how exactly they do it. Outside of the fact this is their world and they have more control over it than he ever will.

"It's the same in Free Cities, all the governments control what portals are allowed and to where." So it really is not specific to Thorne in this case. He doesn't know how it works in Free Cities, if they are blocked from it or not, but he assumes so. It makes a type of sense; in an atmosphere like theirs, with tension everywhere, they can't just have everyone porting around, skirting rules or politics.

"Nocwich can't allow any of us to go through the wrong portal either. If people could escape that way, they would have already." Not Istredd, but he certainly would have encouraged some of the others. Yennefer wants to stay there, and as long as she is there, so is he. "You can't walk over borders either. We can't leave. They barely let us leave the castle."

He nods idly, trying to mentally sort all of that out and line it up with the rest of the limited information he has. He hadn't even begun exploring what travel is or isn't possible between factions, and had only been in Nocwich at all because that's where they ended up after their rescue; that's the only experience he has at all with portals, here or at home.

It's unsurprising that all the obvious avenues for moving between factions are blocked, but that makes something else stand out that he hadn't otherwise considered.

"And the cultists somehow got around all a' those problems."

Which seems significant. There's a big difference between pulling off a bunch of abductions, and pulling off a bunch of abductions when travel is apparently so tightly controlled.

"Yes, exactly." It is something that everyone who has been around knows about, and now Jayden will be learning more about how utterly insane what happened to them was. Not only on a personal level. This was big level that should not have been possible, and yet.

"From what I heard, they hired people who came in and out of factions freely. But that doesn't explain why they could teleport. Or how they moved us so quickly from where we were taken to the Pit." That actually is an important detail. It isn't only that they were snatched, it was that they were snatched and then shuffled over to that island with relative ease. And then everything was set up there.

"This was a massive undertaking with countless moving parts not to mention capturing some very powerful Summoned in the process. I doubt it ends with Josselyn Creed or the acolytes we have."

He's quiet for a time at that, tapping his fingers more quickly and shifting his gaze toward the bookshelves again. On one hand, this information is interesting, it's an indication of what's possible despite the control of the factions, it's something to look into. On the other, the fact that something like this could be possible despite that control is terrifying. No matter how many times he's heard that what happened was exceptionally unusual, and no matter the fact that this issue with travel should indeed confirm that, it doesn't lessen the now deep-seated fear that there will be a repeat of the last month.

But he can't do anything about that except try to understand better, and so the questions continue; he's aware at this point that it might be getting annoying, but that particular anxiety is much lower priority than others at the moment. "She was on the council in Solvunn, right? If the leaders of the factions control who can get in an' out of them, then she'd have Solvunn covered."

Which would make sense and be simple enough, but of course then the issue is the one Istredd stated: it probably doesn't end with her. Unless for some reason all the factions' leaders are using exactly the same methods of controlling their borders, and therefore would know how to get around each other's security--which seems ridiculous--then the other obvious explanation is that Josselyn had help. And, most logically, that help would have to come from leaders from other factions.

"Yes, Solvunn would not have been the problem. That is where it originated, no doubt, zealotry is very real there." For Josselyn to find people who agreed with her, she'd have an easier time in a faction that already believed so heavily in the gods. Convince the group of them that the gods supported her plan, and that would do the trick. She apparently had the money and power to do the rest.

Istredd hasn't spoken with her yet, but he will soon, and get some answers from her before she dies. But there still won't be a good enough reason or excuse or explanation for why she did this to them.

"Thorne and Free Cities are not very religious though. They'd be harder to navigate, but obviously not impossible." They were successful. They pulled off something that shouldn't have been possible. And it means none of them will ever really feel safe again.

"We're trying to get more information from the Summoned in Solvunn about the gods. Clearly they are real in this sphere, so it would be smart to know more about them. The magic they used was High Magic, it requires a connection with the divine." Their connection with the god they used wasn't so perfect that they didn't get found, but it did get them pretty far.

"It doesn't need to have been anythin' to do with religion." It isn't said as a correction, just an addition; Jayden didn't study cults as his specialty, but he does know at least a little about them. "Just whatever appeals to the people she recruited. Could be power, could be some sorta' specific goal she was working toward, could've just been offering a sense of belonging. That's how a lot of cults get people." Which is, of course, depressing. Normally he might feel some sympathy for people taken in by cults, but in this situation it's pretty hard to manage, considering just how many people are dead because of them.

But that's another thought he doesn't want to dwell on, so he quickly continues. "Is that somethin' we know for sure? That it only works because of a connection with the divine?" It's something that's possible, sure, but he's skeptical; other magic seems to work without gods, so he wonders if High Magic isn't just the same way, but religion credits it to the gods. There have been so many things attributed to gods throughout history--in his world, anyway--that later turned out to be natural phenomena, after all.

"My sense is that they were not welcoming to anyone who wasn't a true believer in that cult. Josselyn wouldn't want to take risks. That's why Lorelai became a problem." The woman they knew by another name with her mushroom head, but she once was a normal native. She and Josselyn were friends, which probably explains to him why she didn't see the betrayal coming. "They were still doing the rituals even after half of us escaped."

In that mind, it means they meant it. They believed in whatever they thought the rituals would do. Istredd understands at least in part how this sort of thing works. The Brotherhood wouldn't be called a cult, it would be called an organization, but there are some mages who would never ask questions. Just follow orders. They were raised to be that way.

"We know that's what they claim it does. And I believe a few of our own now have used it successfully, but when combined with asking for divine help." So they do have experienced people within the Summoned who have learned. Wanda is a powerful magic user, she would have known better. "It's all very strange."

Jayden sighs and shifts on his feet a little, disagreeing, but at this point so much is still speculation and he doesn't have any desire to talk about the sort of specifics that are coming up now. Distant, academic assessment of the cult is something he can manage, but he doesn't want to think about the ritual or anything even slightly related to it.

So magic, even if this sort of magic creeps him out a bit, is a safer topic and he switches completely over to that. "Do they have to, I dunno, talk to a specific god or somethin' like that? Or is it more like the divine in general?"

"I think if they want an exact result, they pick an exact god, but they can generally ask them all. Whoever may be listening. A contact of mine in Solvunn is willing to put together a pantheon of the gods for us."

This is important to him, because so far he has come up empty with the extent of Thorne knowledge. One of the things he hates the most is willful ignorance. It so often comes with arrogance, to think some knowledge is useless. As a scholar, he believes no knowledge is fully useless. Sometimes he feels like he's living with the Brotherhood all over again, trying to convince them of the same things.

"The only way they were able to take the illusions off of the island was by knowing what god they did the spell to. High Magic is more powerful than people thought."

All the power of the Thornean mages and they were blind to this until they were talked around to the truth. It required the Summoned to shake them until they had the people they needed to break down the illusions. Yennefer managed to do exactly that, he's certain she was even more frustrated than he is about it.

"Sounds like a good idea. Gettin' a list of the pantheon, I mean." The more knowledge the better, even if he doesn't want anything to do with this sort of magic. Morbid curiosity wants to ask which god it was that the spells on the island had been devoted to, just to know the name behind so much of what happened, but he finds himself not really motivated to find out. It won't help.

"I don't think there's much of anythin' about High Magic in the Free Cities. Least not that I've seen." He hasn't looked much into magic yet, especially since he'd only been in this world a short time before ending up in the pit, but he'd at least heard about New Magic and Academic Magic in that time.

"Yes, if we knew more about them before all of this, they might have been able to counter the spells sooner. Lesson learned. Hopefully not only by us." He's skeptical though. Thorne clearly likes to live in its snobbery and ignorance. Istredd is very tired of it which is part of why he's been spending so much time in here instead. He needs a Thorne break and he can't since they were brought back to the castle. This is the only option.

"I'd be surprised if they have it there, from what I've heard of the Free Cities it's very grounded in technology rather than magic." Istredd shakes his head, sighing as he sits on top of a desk.

"I can't really understand it, the Brotherhood of Sorcerers want their mages to learn all available types. There are some forbidden kinds, usually demonology or necromancy, but that comes from bad experience. As far as I can tell Free Cities and Thorne just undervalues Solvunn's magic, and yet they outwitted everyone."

"Maybe they did have a bad experience." Considering what had just happened, it doesn't seem all that unlikely that something terrible could've happened in the past that caused Thorne and the Free Cities to decide High Magic shouldn't be taught, like demonology or necromancy seem considered in Istredd's world. But more likely--

"Or it just didn't work for their agendas. If the leadership wants to be seen as some sort of true authority, they can't really be seen appealin' to an outside power for their magic." The psychology of this is easy enough to understand, and that's almost reassuring in a sense.

"I think you're exactly right. They also seem more concerned with mortal concerns." The actual life of the people who exist in this sphere. In some circles that would seem almost petty, when there are bigger things at stake, but he does understand it. People can only control so much.

"What is confusing to me about the Free Cities is why they want to destroy the Singularity. Ignoring the gods is one thing, but even their New Magic runs on magic of some kind. It seems like such a drastic point of view." That's not ignoring gods, that is wanting to disrupt the power within this sphere. Istredd thinks Thorne's ignorance about the gods is annoying, but it's nothing compared to the danger of the Free Cities' threat toward the Singularity.

"Is that what they want?" The Free Cities. The idea of trying to destroy the Singularity sounds slightly ridiculous, because removing magic entirely is just... So drastic. Like destroying an entire field of science, or even like removing an entire law of physics or something. Magic seems to integral to this world, and not only thinking it could be destroyed, but that doing so is a good idea, seems short-sighted at best.

"I guess maybe that's why they're so focused on technological advances. If they can get ahead a' the other factions, then eliminate magic, they'd have a huge advantage." And although it's true that New Magic is popular there, the actual technological advances independent of magic are also an important focus, so it feels like that might fit as far as motivation goes.

"That's what we've heard. And yes, I think you are exactly right again." Jayden speaks common sense! "If they can create technology and build their society without using magic, destroying or cutting off magic would put them at the top of the food chain." It's logical.

"But I still think that is such a huge and unreasonable risk to take. The Singularity has been around since the start of this sphere, by all accounts. Destroying it may be impossible, but beyond that, if there is even a small chance it could backfire and destroy the continent, it seems foolish to try." Reckless and foolish. Possibly beyond arrogant. Isterdd is careful though, he is definitely the person to overthink.

Normally, Jayden loves to hear that he's right, and he prides himself on being right more often than not. But in addition to his generally muted emotional response at the moment it's hard to enjoy being correct about things when those things are so stupid.

"Between this, what I've heard about Thorne, and Solvunn's council missin' that one of their members started a cult, I'm startin' to think the leaders of the factions are kinda..." What's a nice word? Or at least an accurate one? "Bad at their jobs."

Nailed it. But at least he didn't say his first thought, which was fucking idiots, so there's that.

Istredd laughs, a rare occurrence, but Jayden's startled him into it. "I've been using dangerously incompetent and arrogant to describe them, but bad at their jobs is also true." He has a low opinion of Thorne and Ambrose, not that the mage would know as Istredd is unfailingly polite to him. Even helpful. He has to be.

"It may be that the Free Cities are only saying they want to destroy it because Thorne wants to use it, so it could be a lot of talk. We don't really know." Istredd has been on the outskirts of warring nations before and it seems reasonable that one would just keep doing the opposite of their enemy out of spite. It's not worth the risk though.

"War seems inevitable, it just probably won't be over the Singularity."

The laughter startles Jayden in turn, but only for a moment, and he relaxes a bit once more at Istredd's next comment. 'Dangerously incompetent and arrogant' is a very elegant way to ride the line of professional and scathing all at once.

He nods in thought at the next part, still tapping his fingers against his side, but less in agitation now and more just as an idle motion while he processes. "Could be. They'd probably be perfectly happy to use it if Thorne weren't around."

No need to get rid of a resource if it's not at risk of being used against them, after all. But the last part of what Istredd says is a bit of a pivot, and he has to ask--

"If not the Singularity, what's the excuse? Territory?" That's the common thing nations go to war over, after all, even if they usually come up with some sort of more politically correct reason. But then again this is an entirely different world, so maybe Thorne or the Free Cities would be shameless about it.

"The Singularity will always be a part of it because it is power. And they crave that power. Over a year ago, a conflict arose between the three factions. During December, the Singularity's power dips and we can walk right up to it. Thorne wanted to use that time to try and feed energy to it, and the Free Cities and Solvunn intervened to steal that energy for themselves. It was the only time I've heard that the Summoned were pushed into direct conflict with one another."

That isn't to say it never happens. Istredd knows for a fact that the Summoned fight, they have their own reasons, and their own histories. But this was them doing something for their faction. He doesn't know what all the motivations were at the time, but it hasn't happened since then as far as he knows. It was still early on so they hadn't made the connections they have now.

"My guess is Thorne wants all its land back, and Free Cities wants Thorne to be destroyed. Solvunn says it is neutral and in a way it probably is, but it also is likely watching the other two destroy each other and waiting." By that he means that he thinks Solvunn's simply playing it smart. Not that they're actually distant from the situation in the least.

"There would be reasons for Nocwich and Solvunn not to want either of them to get the upper hand either. The question is what they're going to make the Summoned do."

Reality doesn’t always give us the life that we desire

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And we can wrap here!