abraxaslogs | [ CLOSED ] tooth and nail, tooth and nail

That's understandable, but it does tie hands to a certain extent.

[He knows what the limits are now, so that'll do. Alucard picks up one of the candied walnuts he has on the table, crunching thoughtfully.]

What you just said implies that the mark can be transferred. How do you figure souls into the situation?

Hate to tell you this, but I'll need more than one conversation.

[ Sorry. He'll be back with more to ask about the bible whilst this shit is ongoing. Next time, he'll bring a cake and heavier vodka.

Geralt leans back in his seat, one eyebrow lifted. ] I didn't mean literally, if that's what you're asking. [ Though he can understand the assumption. He's learned souls mean something else to various spheres. ] This curse. It latched onto him through entire realms. The magic must be sustained within him in some form.

[ He pauses, then reaches for one of the parchment papers. Sketches onto it the rune that Dean bears. It's more than he'd intended to reveal, but there's only so much discretion he can attempt before it becomes a hindrance. If there's anyone he trusts to keep it to themselves, though, it's Alucard. ]

It leaves behind this brand. You're familiar?

I live in hope of things tying up neatly.

[No harm, no foul. Alucard can accept an open ended project.]

That was what I'm asking, yes. [Always good to have something not be an option, at any rate.

At the sketch, the dhampir leans forward, considering. At the same time, the fire in the fireplace jumps in brightness. Just in case something needs to be destroyed.]

It looks a little like Hebrew to my eyes. That's the original language the book you've brought was written in.

[ Geralt peers at Alucard. That the text is translated isn't too unexpected. If it is as ancient as Dean implied, then all language would've evolved since. But it does add an extra layer of obfuscation to something he's already not certain holds many answers.

Still. Alucard is the first person who's identified the rune as something potentially legible. Connected to an existing language, instead of simply a mark. ]

Would you know what it says?

[ This would be simpler on his world, where he's familiar with both Elder and the common tongue. But the mark Dean's shown him holds few similarities to Elder runes. ]

[Alucard's response is delayed, as he writes a few letters down: א, דּ, ךּ. The page is turned back to Geralt.]

I only said it looks like, not that it is. The letters I just wrote are, and I only have reading knowledge. And truth be told, the more I think on the matter, the more it feels the wrong thread to chase after. If we're abiding by the story, there was no written language at the time.

[What he wouldn't give for Sypha. Alucard exhales, disappointed his own thought has hit a logical dead end.] Are there any known terms of the curse besides it being a mark and that none can harm the bearer?

[ No? That changes matters. The lack of written language escaped his consideration; the elves have always had a written language, rudimentary though it was in its original form. If there was a time they did not, that's been long lost in the Conjunction and the centuries since. ]

Allows the bearer to wield the First Blade. I've called it a curse, but it was not one taken on unwillingly. A deal was made.

[ He lapses into silence, thinking. Perhaps that is where he's erred. Looking at it strictly as a curse. ]

These curses recorded, they arise from a—breach of contract. [ Right? That's typical. Someone steals gold from an altar and is trapped in the form of a swine. (It's happened.) A spell, triggered because you fucked up your end of the agreement—spoken or unspoken. Whether it's cast by a wrathful god or a vengeful priestess is irrelevant. ] Is there an instance where someone...renegotiated their terms?

Edited 2022-12-12 00:59 (UTC)

So this curse and the mark is focused on the act itself. What is the value of the blade? [Alucard's tone suggests that that clarification is actually useful.] And as for the act itself - is it weighted because of the act of murder generally or the specific act of killing one's sibling? That information might--

[The word deal though. That's different. Enough to stop Alucard in his train of thought, and to reach back for the paper. He flips it over, making a few hurried notes about the ground already covered.]

To answer specifically, I'd have to know the particulars of a deal. Mostly the terms. What is said is where a chance for renegotiation lies. Unless you especially want me to dig into theology here.

Edited 2022-12-12 01:07 (UTC)

The murder. [ The answer comes without hesitation. He's aware Dean has a brother—has met him, by this point—but he remembers what Dean said when Geralt pointed out that the path this curse will lead down is likely more killing. ] The blade was used to kill a creature that couldn't be harmed otherwise. In exchange for using it, he received the mark.

[ Wait. Does that mean the blade could—?

Alucard disrupts his thoughts before they can finish. Geralt flicks his gaze up. It's clear he's been going through this bullshit for awhile, that he's not gotten far, and that he really wishes it weren't his fucking problem. In a way, it isn't. It's Dean's. But Dean's a friend, a close friend, so.

It is his problem.

He huffs. Yeah. About that. ] Regretfully, he's an idiot. Didn't exactly review the terms in detail before accepting. Or at all.

[ So. Theology it'll have to be. ]

[One huff deserves a long, wearying sigh.]

Or at all is the actual problem at play. That tells me that whoever he made the deal with isn't going to be willing to renegotiate. But before I go further--

[He's about to regret this.]

Did he explain any of the religion contained in the book to you?

[ In the strictest sense? Yes. Dean explained. And if he's being truthful, it was not...an incomprehensible explanation. It wasn't thorough, but he grasped what was important at the time, which was not a hell of a lot more than a broad sense of Lucifer holds a grudge and might try to fuck with everyone.

Now there's, mm. A bit more to it that's going on. ]

I received a... [ How to put it. ] Rudimentary overview. Of Lucifer. And demons.

[ Who's here. Should he mention that to Alucard? Geralt peers at the dhampir, then decides Alucard has enough to contend with. The man's buried himself in the desert. It's fine. He doubts Lucifer will ever come across him in any real way.

He sighs. ] I'm having trouble believing the sole basis of a world's reality is contained within a singular text. There aren't additional sources?

And that was it? [Alucard's eyebrows lift, deeply unimpressed by this introduction. He sighs, pausing to rub at the bridge of his nose. He'll say one thing for Belmonts: at least they had a good overview of things.]

What you recieved was woefully inadequate and quite frankly, unhelpful. I'll lay my bias out here clearly before I begin: religion led to my mother's murder and the disasters that happened after. I do not look upon the priests kindly. Their institution brings out the worst in men.

[That's that. Alucard then reaches for the bible and opens it, paging through a few thin sheets. That's a fine point to begin.]

This isn't close to the sole basis of a world's reality. It is the basis for two religions of many more. The first part of this book [he pats the pages to the left] apply to only one faith. The second half, here, was written some time after the first, and those individuals - they identify themselves as Christians - take the whole book as true. Regardless, both faiths see the text as either divinely inspired or the literal word of their god. That's a theological debate for another time.

That's also the other part of your problem here. Lucifer, demons, the questions of the afterlife, those are developed over centuries in commentaries and theological writings extrapolated from the text. Then those become part of a theological debate, usually among priests in the case of Christianity. Their priesthood - limited to men for theological reasons - then preaches the general interpretations to the masses and so things are further distributed and you can see how it goes from there.

[He breathes out, then tilts his head.] Is that more useful?

[ Geralt tilts his head. He gets what Alucard is saying. Unfortunately— ]

There is no debate. [ An angel lives in the inn a few doors down from Sam Wilson. Geralt caught him meditating once in a pool. He doesn't buy that these beings, these entities, are the entire building blocks of a sphere. But they are real, in their own way. ] This world is something else. Priests, institutions, they're irrelevant to what walks its earth.

[ In fact, Dean's never mentioned anything of priests and churches. It is, solely, about the beings. The demons, the angels, the magic that's specified in the writings. Alucard might understand the text through the lens of religion, but for Geralt, this book is more akin to a bestiary of sorts. With a side of curses and spells. A few prophecies thrown in for good measure. ]

Where did the original text come from?

You're focused on the lore outside of the text then, for the most part. Reading through the writings of men - usually said to be prophets - will not help in the long run. You'll get a basis for some of the deeper lore. Like the Cain and Abel part, that takes up--

[Alucard flips through to Genesis, finds the right section. It is tiny. Immeasurably so compared to the discussion they've just had about the whole matter.]

There. That's it. [Alucard reaches for his glass, then drains it in one last slug.] What else do you need clarification on?

No, I mean— [ He shakes his head. He read it. It is fucking sparse. Hardly worth the weight of the entire tome. But that isn't what he's referring to. ]

You said it was originally in another language. But who wrote it, if it occurred before a written language existed? On the Continent, the elves—Ithlinne's prophecy has been recorded in both Elder and the common tongue. Across multiple writings. Scholars have debated it for centuries. When it will come to pass, what the new sun refers to. That sort of bullshit. But Ithlinne herself is the known source.

[ So who is the known source for this? Or what? Was it Cain himself? ]

Who witnessed Cain and Abel? How did this story come to be told and recorded for generations?

Ah. I follow. [Alucard will concede his perspective is not the correct one here. He doesn't like the religion involved, and he's reducing it only to myth, rather than playing into the story being real. Sypha would have known better.]

Tradition holds that the first five books of the Hebrew Bible - or Old Testament so far as the Christians refer to it - was written by Moses. He was a prophet and chosen by their god to lead them out of enslavement. These books are divinely inspired. The author, in this case, is not a witness. It is given to him by his god to put down on the page. So while logically I would say it was an oral history developed and then written down, the answer within the context of the faith is a prophet in communication with the divine.

Like an oracle.

[ All right. He can work with that. He does not believe in prophecies entirely, but they're a familiar to him. And he can accept that visions sometimes come to pass. That they hold some truth to them.

He's seen it with Ciri.

Either way, he imagines Cain's fate is where the answers lie. He was the original bearer of the curse. Perhaps somewhere out there, someone divined what happened to him.

He closes the book. ] I appreciate the information.

That's a good way of putting it, yes.

[Alucard breathes out, glad to at least have found something useful in the nightmare of having to discuss religion. But that does actually bring something up, and maybe it is pertinent here.]

I'm not sure how much it'll help. But if I may - how does religion and faith work for your world? I have a distinct feeling there are differences at hand that may also make this tricky.

[ Geralt glances up from his glass. What isn't different may be easier to cover. ]

We have gods, goddesses, saints, ancient beings. [ He shifts in his seat. ] Priests and priestesses who join a temple will dedicate themselves to that deity. Others prefer to wander and worship all of them.

[ He spent time at a temple, but faith never played a significant role. He knows the rituals, the history. Just didn't really worship anything. Nenneke never asked it of him or her students. Only that they respected the temple's rules. ]

Temples often give refuge and education. Graduates in healing magic are common. Historians, too.

[Hm. That's a lot, but there's an important part to clarify:] And their take on obedience and morality?

[ He raises an eyebrow. Obedience for what, specifically? ] Depends who you ask.

[ Probably, what Alucard is hearing out of this is just—the lack of any organized overarching sect or belief. The Continent can barely agree who landed first on its earth. Faith, like everything else, is scattered at best. Melitele is a well-known figure, but even her reach only goes so far.

Still. He thinks he knows what Alucard is getting at. ]

Religious fervour occasionally grips a small village. Sacrifices, infighting. Expulsion over petty wrongs. Unwavering obedience through faith are for the few fanatics. The rest of us couldn't give a fuck.

I see. Monotheism aside, the difference between our worlds in this case is the structure of religion and the hegemony involved. While my world has different countries and nations, most that reside within them fall under the Christian religion. That faith is organized, with ranks of priests, a hierarchy, and a priest in charge called the pope who is chosen by their god to lead the church. There is a general expectation that Christians obey the teachings of the church as they are interpreted by the priests.

[Alucard's gaze falls back to the bible.] Their god is concerned with morality, and judges you in the afterlife on the topic. That earns you either eternal reward or punishment, the Bible you were given is the guide from where the teachings and reasonings derive from. What you do in your life counts either as a good act or a sin, and what qualifies as sin is really anything the church doesn't approve of.

[As an example:] Murder is a sin, defrauding your neighbor is a sin, generally being a dick is a sin. Magic - usually called witchcraft - is a sin, by their account. Usually it falls to ordinary courts to met out punishments, but spiritual crimes, which magic falls under, is closer to their jurisdictions, as are general heresies and such. They burn heretics and mages alive. It's a point about the afterlife and the eternal flames of their Hell.

[ All right, that Dean did cover to a degree. As in, he was informed people who wear jeggings are doomed to hell, which he imagines is not a teaching in the literature, but who the fuck knows. It did get the point across.

He pauses. Afterlife. Yeah. That is what's absent, he supposes. ]

We haven't got an afterlife. [ He pours another drink. What's beyond death? Nothing, he thinks. Death takes you by the hand. The rest is empty, unknown. ] Though I'm aware of the matter of sins and hell.

[ He's seen it, through Dean's memories. Isn't sure what to make of it even now. Alucard speaks of the acts of a church, not what literally crawls forth out of another realm. These are two different things.

But as for disapproval. That is all too common. His tone turns wry. ] Humans published a text. On Witchers. Shortly before Kaer Morhen burned. Said we were deviants, only fit to be wiped out. Faith doesn't teach people to cast judgment. It's just one excuse amongst many. They'll always find a reason.

Faith was the driving factor in my mother's murder - or at least, why others watched it happen rather than intercede. [He pauses. Geralt may have put two and two together by now, but in case not:] If you remember the caves back in Thorne...that was what kept creeping past me. [The smell of burning, the anger, the rage of it all. Alucard finishes his glass.] I don't believe I've ever said it before, but I am deeply sorry for the loss of your people and how it came about.

[It doesn't need to be said. All the more reason to vocalize it. The dhampir refills his glass.]

The lack of an afterlife is a surprise, I'll admit. But there. That's the ultimate difference. The water in which my world swims in has Christianity laced through every part. And that's what makes it difficult to explain. You have to think about how to describe what is natural to you.

[ His gaze shifts up. No. Alucard has not said it, but Geralt had never returned the sentiment, either. It had not felt necessary. An event that runs deeper than apologies and regrets, for both of them.

Until now. Maybe it's different, here, when it is no longer the initial confession. ]

I'm sorry, too. [ He's wondered. How long before the Continent turned on mages. Once the elves were gone? Or would they look to the dwarves first? ]

Another on the Continent might have more clarity. But faith and I don't exactly walk the same path. [ Even his feelings on the question of Destiny—that is not really faith, where he's concerned. He is not looking for something to believe in. To lay his hopes upon. ] Didn't help with earning coin or killing monsters. I never gave it much thought.

[ Or more specifically: he thought about it for a long time, decided what the fuck did it make any difference, and then dismissed subject as not worth returning to. ]

Edited 2022-12-18 02:19 (UTC)

[A small, pained smile flickers across Alucard's face. It isn't trite, coming from Geralt. The man doesn't mince words or condolences.]

Amazing how a printing press and a few ambitious people can ruin so many lives.

[So it goes here as well. Alucard knows that, but it is easier. He isn't connected to the politics, nothing is so deeply personal. It makes a world of difference.]

At the end of the day, I think all that matters is that you have an established relationship with the world that lets you more or less function within it. The rest is trappings designed for others.

[ CLOSED ] tooth and nail, tooth and nail

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